Keeping Rammy’s Character
I noticed a few comments where people have been concerned about the frontage of the new discount store in Ramsbottom. I agree completely – sadly, we’re unable to do much about the supermarkets and their love of illuminated plastic signage, but at least they’re off the main street. The vast majority of businesses on Bridge Street and Market Street are in keeping with the area and look attractive.
I went on a short break to Krakow last week and, although it wasn’t my first visit, there are a few things that strike me about it. Firstly, it’s ridiculously clean. Not just the main square but the parks, the roads and the pavements. Secondly, the vast number of independent shops there. These range from cafes to jewellers, delicatessens to chemists, not all aimed at the tourist market. It’s not all pretty-pretty either; Krakow is a working city populated with working people. There are stalls on the streets selling bread and home-grown fruit, vegetables and nuts, and those lung-ripping cigarettes that cost a few quid a packet.
It’s a sad fact that many places in Britain have become ‘anytown’, with few distuinguishing features and each housing the same old chains. Bury, Bolton, Rochdale – each have very few independents left. It looks like Rawtenstall is headed the same way, what with the huge Asda looming over the town and plans for Argos and other chains. Let’s hope that the Sunday Bests of the world continue to fly the flag for independent retailers.
This is why we’re so lucky in Rammy. OK, so there are a few supermarkets – and another on the way – but there are also lots of independent shops. It means the town has a character all of its own and it’s up to all of us to safeguard that by shopping locally.
So, back to the discount store and its not-too-pretty frontage. I suppose it’s up to the owners to improve it but time will tell whether they decide to or not. I suppose we should be grateful for what we’ve got.
The Poles are great ones for displays. The shop windows in Krakow were fantastic, and at this time of year gourds and pumpkins were absolutely everywhere from cafe table tops to shop doorways. And we have some great shop fronts here too – just take a look at ‘The Hidden Gem’ . And, of course, our shopowners come into their own during the Wartime Weekend and at Christmas. So to all those who make the effort – it’s much appreciated!
October 15th, 2009 at 8:26 am
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A little bird tells me that the sign is actually illegal, in a conservation sense. As Ramsbottom is a conservation area all signs need to be kept in line with the vibe of the town….I don’t think pillows and a bright sign are keeping with that….do you bury council?
October 17th, 2009 at 8:25 am
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Has anyone had a word with the shop owners? It may be that a quiet word in their ear might get them to see sense. Also, are they leasing the shop from the previous incumbent? If so, surely the landlord can make some stipulations on what the place should look like – especially if they are a Ramsbottom resident themselves.
October 18th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
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I’ve spoken to the owners who have showed me proof that the sign is not illegal as only the other side of the road is for conservation. Whilst i was in the shop one of the elderly local rammy residents came in hurling abuse at the owners, Which was absolutely disgusting, Saying things like cheap ant tatty shop????. This sort of thing doesnt exactly make ramsbottom a better place and puts across the wrong message to youngsters. Should we behave like this because of a sign??????
October 18th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
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Ramsbottom Baragins! 3 bottles of bleach for £1, you cant go wrong. Give the lad a chance, better than another empty shop which many towns have these days! Give the lad a chance he is only trying to earn a living, educate him, dont knock him! The previous fruit and veg shop displayed items outside and leading up to Christmas trees blocked the pavement. Maybe he should not hang items outside, but thats what shops used to do anyway in days gone by for example hard ware, meat, fuit and veg etc. Two tubes of Colgate Tooth Paste for a pound!…….
October 19th, 2009 at 11:42 am
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Okay, I’ve been steering clear of this for a while, but I have to say this whole thing is getting ugly. No, the sign isn’t attractive. But I’m not sorry that instead of an empty storefront there’s now a place to buy some useful household items I’d not previously seen elsewhere in town (and yes, I shop local.) And note it isn’t part of a chain, it appears to be run by an independent storeowner.
I moved to Ramsbottom in part because I liked its great mix of local and independent shops. But it is at heart a very traditional place, and its shops serve a surrounding area that includes very wealthy neighbourhoods as well as many places where people are really struggling. Ramsbottom isn’t a gentrified yuppie Disneyland like Chorlton or Didsbury, it’s a real place with its own character, and I, for one, hope it stays that way.
I have to wonder, would there be this much fussing about this blinking sign if it was advertising a high-end greengrocer? Would there be as much of an outrcy about a third supermarket if it was Waitrose and not Aldi coming in? A lot of this “controversy” has an undercurrent of class snobbery about it that leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.
October 21st, 2009 at 1:45 am
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Wellsaid Kate Feld :-)
The guy is just trying to make a living and I hope he is doing just that.
Class snobbery indeedy. What do you expect though from a Tory stronghold?
Give the bloke a chance ffs.
If it saves you a few pennies and keeps away hat shops, holistic therapy and charity shops which WILL in time ground this beautiful town into the ground then Im all for it.
Get off your soapboxes and go buy yourself some cheapo gear that you normally have no qualms about buying from the biggest junk shop just down the road…Wilkinsons.
October 21st, 2009 at 5:02 pm
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Funny, I made a remark about typical Tory stronghold snobbery and my reply is not published.
I agree entirely with Kate.
Give the bloke a break, hes trying to make a living like any other business in Rammy. Better than the appearance of yet another charity shop :-(
October 26th, 2009 at 10:42 pm
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Its not like Rammy’s inundated with bargain shops – Someone is trying to run an independant business in a town that needs as many as it can get. Fair play to them.
October 27th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
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Wow, this has turned into a bit of an emotive subject. The blog was simply a response to comments I’d spotted on the site. I can’t say I’m hugely offended by the shop front but I also think we should appreciate the good stuff we have.
My blog – as I’ve said before – isn’t meant to preach (that would make me a total hypocrite). It’s great to get comments from people. And I stand by the viewpoint that we should do our best to support small local businesses. Who knows, if the shop takes off they may invest in a posh new sign and then everyone’s happy.
Each to their own. The next blog will be on plastic bags… can people get passionate about that I wonder?:)
November 2nd, 2009 at 12:23 pm
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At least there isn’t another empty shop- considering the state of the economy, I think Rammy is doing pretty well.
Instead of complaining about a shop sign, can we not all campaign to do something about Rammy’s biggest eyesore- the waste ground/excuse for a car park next to Tesco. Tourists alight the ELR and the first thing they see is that- not very appealing.
I’d like to suggest a new Market Place- Cotswold style with stone pillars, slate roof etc. Not sure who owns the land is it Tesco?
It would make sense to then free up the proper car parks on Saturdays and Sundays- currently where the Markets are held.
November 2nd, 2009 at 12:42 pm
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As a life long resident of Rammy and proud to be a Tory snob, I totally agree with the comments over the “state” of the shop frontage, fair enough the sign is not in keeping with the area, but it presentable – What is totally unacceptable is the wares displaye outside, toilet seats, potties, etc etc – Surely there are bi laws that prohibited this type of display on a public walk way. Do all the supporters of this shop think that it will attract visitors to the town – I think not! Can I request that everyone who is even slighly offended by the store, lobby the council, your local MP etc – We must ensure that this is not a slippery slope into Cheeham hill!
November 2nd, 2009 at 1:31 pm
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Just to add my penny worth. It is an independant shop, selling things we all need, that we probably would otherwise buy at the supermaket, so I go there. Maybe the shop keeper has not had a shop before and would welcome advice from other retailers as to how to display his wares. Being ‘exclusive’ is ok if all the shops are full and the town bustling with shoppers every day, but that is not the case. I think that if a shop brings people to it and in the vicinity of all the other shops, lets welcome that shop and its owners into our community.
November 2nd, 2009 at 6:37 pm
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As the occupants have not sought planning nor advertising consent for the signage (it would not be granted for that type of sign)they will be asked to take down the sign by the planning office.
November 3rd, 2009 at 10:23 pm
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I too was disappointed to see the front of this new shop in Ramsbottom. I thought that all the traders had to have their signage and front of the shop passed by planning to be in keeping with the other shops. Most of them have chosen to give a Victorian feel to their signs and columns around their door which has improved the main streets in Ramsbottom.
November 14th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
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I can’t say I am exceited by the sign or the mess on the pavement however I am pleased somebody is making a living in these difficult times. I don’t think there is any value in approaching our planners as these are indeed the idiots who thought a tat store like ALDI (the 3rd supermarket) is required in Rammy, so I doubt they will have any desire to request the signage is redesigned to introduce the class that the other shops bring to this town.
As for the posh tory town comment well it is simple. We all benefit from a rich wealth of shops and when we need to sell property higher value than our immediate neighbours. Why, because Rammy is a quality place with quality shops. If we accept tat on the pavement and have that in 4 / 5 / 10 shops + all the major chains squeezing themselve in, then we loose the quality Rammy has and we also loose the ‘posh’ value in our properties. Can anyone here afford to lose that 20% that owning a house in Rammy holds over our immediate neighbours.
Let’s start hammering our councillors about quality shops, quality design and uniqueness. Let’s educate our councillors first. Clearly they need it.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:54 am
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This is not a unique scenario. A bit of academic background i read a BA degree in retail marketing at Manchester Metropolitan University which i passed with honours. MMU has a well regarded retail research department headed up by Professor David Bennison, they have published several papers and journals on retail migration, retail planning policy and the death / survival of the traditional high street. To confess for my sins i worked as part of the research department on planning policy for Tesco.
Anyway, during my time as a student and research fellow MMU conducted research on a number of villages / towns including Salford, Droylsden, Horwich, Didsbury and since my departure Ramsbottom. The overwhelming conclusion of MMU’s work and also that of the University of Cardiff is that a strong retail mix with anchor stores is critical to the survival of any shopping environment whether that be a village or a bustling city centre. What is essential is a beating heart, or an anchor store(s), in Ramsbottom its Morrisons and Tesco (although Tesco is soon to be relegated to 3rd when Aldi opens). The anchor store theory is simple – they are the attraction whether you like it or not. They are destination stores that drive additional footfall, and a reason for people to come to Ramsbottom to shop. The research i was involved in proved whilst the initial hit is a dip in trade as everyone goes to inspect the emperors new clothes there is a pick up and sustained level of new business for the majority of the existing businesses simply due to the increased number of people in the town. My only problem with Aldi is that planning should have only been granted if it was nearer the petrol station rather than the ‘Bermuda Triangle’ of branded supermarkets so that people would park up and crisscross the town on foot.
And so to the entrepreneur, it may not be pretty but his is a barometer of the health of the towns retail mix, another independent able to make a living in a vibrant village. What may have missed your radar is the opening of 2 more charity shops in the last 12 months, i’m afraid that is an unhealthy sign, whilst we all make the effort to support them they are an indication of cheap rent and landlord panic to get a revenue stream. Whilst they may be aesthetically pleasing to the eye, the doctor would prescribe you eyedrops for this affliction. Ramsbottom needs more entrepreneurs to take empty shops (now that Thresher has gone into administration be careful what you wish for moving into that 9 months vacant slot on Bolton Road, i believe Greggs the bakers are eyeing up 200 of their sites).
If you are ever over in horwich look how the Middlebrook retail development has decimated the the village of Horwich, in contrast look how healthy didsbury is with is mix of independents and high street names. Back the entrepreneurs, and be thankful for the branded stores, there is life in Ramsbottom as long as there is a beating heart. tory boys, liberals, lefties and undecided’s – if you know someone who wants to open a shop tell them to come to Rammy!
November 19th, 2009 at 2:03 am
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Well this is the first time that I have been to this site and have read the comments. As someone who is classed as Old Rammy ie born here 60 years ago as against New Rammy ie ANAL (After Nuttall Abomination Lane)development. I feel that I must put my two pennyworth in.
However much New Rammy wants to turn it into Wimslow etc. It was just doing fine without you.
The bargain shop is just fine abit cramped. We have had them before and some have moved on to bigger things after starting in Rammy. I welcome the new Aldi. A tat shop I believe someone said. Well they can shop in the TWxT shops and pay TWxT prices.
The most urgent thing Rammy needs is a road and bridge from the motorway to Holcombe Brook. This will relieve the traffic in Rammy and Summerseat The councils keeps passing building apps with no new roads and when these are turned down they are passed by the sec of state in London.
I realise this won’t happen but all in Rammy are fed up with the traffic.
As to the dirt carpark near Tescos. It was a factory called Stocktons that made headboards. When demolished the ground was left waste. It has been like that for at least 15 years. So Tesco doesn’t own it and maybe claiming squatters rights.
November 19th, 2009 at 10:20 am
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I really cant believe the snobbery of some people in Ramsbottom. The signage for the discount store is bright yellow but it doesnt give me nightmares. Of course its distressing to have an Aldi, how dare they open somewhere that’s value for money!!! It must also be disconcerting that there arent enough charity shops and therapy centres for some. I moved here a while back, and the obsession with being better than others is unreal. Why not ask the council if Rammy could become twinned with Alderley Edge or Knutsford?? Some of you obviously would rather not be in Lancashire at all, let alone a small village in the north of Bury!! Rammy is a vibrant place, with many nice shops and restaurants, as an outsider living here I can possibly see the good and bad sides clearer than most.
I must qualify the remarks I am about to make…I am an award winning chef, retaining a Michelin Bib Gourmande for 5 consecutive years…1) Aldi sell better fresh produce than the supermarkets and independents in situ…2)Kans is far superior to China Cottage, even though it looks old fashioned…the First Chop and Callenders sell better food than most in Rammy(yes I did say Callenders, get off your snob train, its really good stuff, and the chef used to work with Crawford Campbell of Gleneagles fame!!!)…3)If certain peoples attitudes dont change for the better, this beatiful place will end up like Rawtenstall…a pretty little ghost town.Shops need to be open, whatever they sell(within reason) Clitheroe can do it, and they have a castle as well as discount stores..thank you for your time, rant over
November 19th, 2009 at 11:00 pm
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There’s nothing wrong, or snobbish, about disliking the sign in question, it is clearly out of character with the rest of the businesses nearby. Orbis did a lovely job of renovating the property they have moved into a few doors along, must have cost a bit and they must be wondering why they bothered.
Rammy John – good for you on living in Ramsbottom for 60 years. I can’t imagine living anywhere that long. I’m nearly 50 and have lived in Hull, several different bits of London, York, Leeds, Manchester, Rochdale and probably several other places I’ve forgotten about. I’m not sure but I think this gives me a better perspective on the lovely town in which we both live – what else do you have to compare it to? And I really like my modern 5 bedroom detached house in the Nuttall Lane development, thank you very much, and wouldn’t want to live anywhere else in the town.
November 22nd, 2009 at 10:13 pm
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While no MMU educated scholar, i felt compelled to reply regarding ChrisFM’s comments. As a former shop owner in Ramsbottom and born and bred in the village, I was disgusted to find several of our products in the local co-op supermarket and all, without fail, being retailed below our cost price. In addition to this the co-op sells newspapers, dishwashers, fruit and veg, lighting goods, the list goes on. To much public outcry, the post office was relocated instore closing the existing post office which brought considerable trade to the Bridge Steet area. Local shops suffered hugely due to the sudden loss of footfall.
I do agree with your classroom-based thesis in one respect only. Yes, multiples do bring trade to small villages, but at what price. This trade is ridiculously localised, the supermarkets having cornered nearly every broad and niche market. There appears to be little they don’t retail, thus negating the need for small, specialised shops.
Ramsbottom had 3 butchers, 4 fruit and veg shops, etc etc. Most of these are now closed or managing to break even and I salute them wholeheartedly for sticking in there.
I would recommend that ChrisFM try running a local business in competition with a conglomerate that has no interest in the local community. In fact, I suspect that he is a regular in said conglomerates. I congratulate him on his accomplished education but in light of the steady decline of small independents his blinkered approach is, unfortunately, part of the problem. The bottom line truly is that supermarkets kill small businesses which have long been the heart of community life. The argument for supermarkets in villages is, I fear, indefensible.
November 25th, 2009 at 1:01 am
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Adrian, i’m glad you took the time to read and respond.
My scholarly approach is purely that. I am a champion of the local entrepreneur shopkeepers and always will be, its my passion and important to me, its one of the main the reason i moved here. I feel that Rammy is a town with an attraction to both tourist and other entrepreneur shopkeepers and will prosper for a long, long time.
Supermarkets are a modern incarnation and a convenience fueled by our frantic post modern lifestyles. In a time gone by the town could sustain 3 butchers, 4 fruit and veg shops etc, but that really is a time gone by and thats just 10 or 15 years ago. We talk of ‘physical supermarket’ but how many Ocado, tesco online, Asda and Sainsbury delivery vans do you see in this fine village? Many, no doubt, i do, they have simply replaced the boy delivering Hovis on his bike. They are as much as a threat to Aldi opening, if people don’t walk to the shops, they now click.
I would love to see the town with one less supermarket, whilst Tesco is destined to fail now that Aldi has opened its doors (the impact of Morrisons has been immense), they will continue to trade, maybe even at a loss just for brand presence in the town.
Retailing is moving at a frantic pace and what Rammy needs is more specialist retailers along with the traditionalist, and more imagination from the existing incumbents. A specialist running and outdoors shop, a bike shop, a gallery, an ethnic food specialist, local unique produce, crafts, arts, the lot, and a market with a something different, i could go on, and will. Lets get a proper farmers market in the town and move it from that dreadful location by the Urn, it needs to be fortnightly, and not some collection of deli’s and chocolatiers, the so called ‘farmers’ market is a joke. Whilst i think of it what Rammy needs is Park Farm to open into the town, it might escape flooding, enjoy a roaring trade and spark a revolution, where is their stall at the market?
Rammy needs to appeal to its new and old residents as well as those stepping off the train at weekends – and open when they arrive! Whilst the traditional butcher, baker and candlestick maker would make the town even more quaint for the reams of BBC executives destined for a forced exodus from London to Media City (which are being hawked around Rammy at the moment as an idyllic place to live ahead of Didsbury!) the reality is the town is moving on and its beating heart needs to find adapt to a new rhythm.
Modern lifestyles require convenience, whilst our moral compass points us all to support what’s local, inventive and good for our health and the health or Rammy, Fact is we need a mix, and the independent mix just has to innovate and experiment a bit more.
November 26th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
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there used to be a similar shop on bridge street years ago bridge street bargins, it was fantastic for household stuff!!
December 4th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
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I’ve just noticed the new Xmas shop on Bolton Street, now that is shocking and I’m sure that sign is illegal!!!
December 5th, 2009 at 12:42 am
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Not noticed the Christmas shop yet. Is it one and the same as that hideous bargain shop? If you want tat then go to The Rock in Bury which is an awful place but you can get dangerous toys, threadbare bedding and plastic shoes galore! We don’t want that kind of stuff sold on the picturesque streets of Ramsbottom though.
December 7th, 2009 at 10:29 am
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I’ve heard the bargain xmas shop is being run by a 15 year old boy that has been expelled from school! Not only is it bringing down the image of Ramsbottom but isnt it also illegal. Not long ago it was a solicitors office and now its a xmas bargain store? Im thinking they dont have a licence to be doing such a thing!
December 7th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
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That sign must be illegal! The shop is a disgrace and the landlord who rented them the space obviously has no interest in keeping the caracter of Ramsbottom
December 7th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
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The Christmas Shop is an absolute eyesore. It seems to be run by two scruffy teenage boys (who should be at school if you ask me), looks more like a pocket money making scheme. At least the Bargain Shop in Ramsbottom will have Public Liability Insurance – does the Christmas Shop?? Inside the stock looks cheap and tacky probably bought from the Poundshop in Bury and prices hiked up! I personally would not touch it with a bargepole – the sign is probably illegal and looks dreadful, its probably worth more than the stock!! So much for conservation.
December 11th, 2009 at 6:17 am
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I walked past the shop yesterday and saw a young boy, there was also two girls from woodhey high school there, I was going to call in but the door was locked and they were eating some sandwiches !!!!!
They were clearly not interested in my custom
January 11th, 2010 at 3:32 pm
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The sign and decorations are still up at the Xmas Bargain Store! We are having a sweepstake in our office as to when they might be bothered to take the eyesore down. My money is on Easter – anyone want to join in?
January 25th, 2010 at 7:55 pm
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I reckon your gonna loose that bet, my monies on tomorrow ;)
February 1st, 2010 at 9:58 am
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Sorry LM, its still there! Was worried that you had some inside information; I think my money is safe!
February 2nd, 2010 at 10:52 am
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The Christmas Bargain store is getting beyond a joke now. I thought the council were strict on what you could do in a conservation area. I’ve a good mind to take the sign down myself. Not to mention contacting the truant officer about its absent scruffy proprietors. The back yard is also a health hazard. Who owns this place? They want shooting!
March 27th, 2010 at 12:17 pm
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I have used the shop in question and I think it has a place in Ramsbottom! We all like a bargain and if it brings income into the town all well and good.
Maybe if the owners /proprietors read this they as a good will gesture would change the sign for something a bit more in keeping with the town, at the end of the day the town needs businesses to thrive and the businesses need the community to support them!
April 7th, 2010 at 8:39 pm
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Sadly there was no help for this once thriving business, only the leeches that helped to get the place closed down! Yes it looks scruffy but please take consideration for the owner who lost EVERYTHING when they lost their business. Im sure in time when they come to terms with the fact that they have lost their business and whole lifes savings they will muster up the energy to tidy the place.
Show a bit of compassion!!
April 15th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
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Sorry, but comments on this topic are now closed – until people can grow up and stop pretending to be other people.
October 1st, 2011 at 10:26 pm
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All u SNOBS (nobs being the main part)…. really need to get ur heads out of ur backsides and take a look at the real world.. living in ur own little bubbles worrying about stupid things like signs on an effin shop for god damn sake GET A LIFE!!! There are worse things goin on in the world than a shop opening u sad pathetic people!!!!!!!!!!
November 19th, 2011 at 12:34 pm
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I would love to buy some crown blue pumpkin are there anybody know where can I buy that I live in Bury but I can go to ramsbottom too. thank you.